14 comments

  1. Joseph

    I’m not sure why you give a crap what we think at Plunderbund- and I certainly can’t speak for the rest of the crew- but here’s what I think:
    I agree with Rolling Stone’s Tim Dickinson on one thing: the Petraeus/Betray Us title is a bad and unclever pun.
    But I certainly don’t think MoveOn.org is breaking any new ground, turning any heads or changing any minds with their new ad.
    As a matter of fact, I found the ad pretty boring. They are quoting facts that we have all heard before and, by the second sentence, I was bored and uninterested in reading the rest of the ad.
    As far as the issue of patriotism- I’d argue that the ad isn’t questioning his patriotism. Instead, it’s asking: why aren’t these people telling us the truth?
    However, I think MoveOn.org does has every right to question the patriotism of Bush and his cronies.
    If it’s acceptable for Bush to question the patriotism of people who oppose HIS war- then it’s also acceptable for MoveOn.org to question HIS patriotism because of his mindless support for the war that has killed thousands of americans and cost the american taxpayers billions and billions of dollars.
    I disagree with the “we’re better than that” policy of liberal writers like Tim Dickinson who attack groups like MoveOn.org for “practicing a mirror image of Sean Hannity politics.”
    I say: if it’s ok for the right- then it’s ok for the left!
    It’s Tim’s kind of wussy attitude that has lost the dems so many elections and caused voters to lose faith in the strength and conviction of lefty politicians.

  2. Brian

    I’ll weigh in too – I think the hyperventilating by most of the right on this is pathetically ironic. I agree with Joseph; the pun in the big bold text is not terribly clever, and actually distracts from the far less inflammatory body of the ad. They were trying to be edgy and punchy, and I think they missed.
    That said, the body of the document is pretty much spot on, if rather uninspiring. And it’s not questioning Petreaus’ patriotism, or calling him a traitor – it’s asking why he’s more interested in “cooking the books” to look after President Bush’s interests than the interests of the American people. I think we can all agree that we want public servants that are interested in doing what’s right, not necessarily what their bosses want to hear, or would find politically expedient.
    I do recognize that pro-war people don’t think Petreaus is “manipulating” the numbers for political expediency, but he is. Sorry. Is he a liar? Well, a liar is defined as one who tells lies, and lies are defined as “Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression”, so… yeah, I guess he is.

  3. Joseph

    You asked about my reaction to the ad. And I don’t see any problem with it.
    When General Petraeus accepted his current position, he officially became a political appointee and, therefore, fair game for political attacks like this one from MoveOn.org.
    At the end of the day, Petraeus is a professional soldier with a tough job (winning a war) made even tougher by the added political requirements (making the administration look good).
    It’s a hard task- and I’m sure he’s doing his best.
    I’m also sure he isn’t wasting HIS time thinking about some silly ad from MoveOn.org.

  4. Brian

    It’s not exactly like it’s a difficult thing to prove. But I’m not running around shouting it from the hilltops because it’s divisive and counter-productive. What’s important is that he’s presenting information prepared by the White House as being from an “independent” military expert, and that information is “cooked”, to put it charitably.
    Hell, since the surge started Iraqis themselves have had a 37% drop in the number of people who think things are going well, and a 43% drop in the number of people who think things will be better in a year. Nearly 2/3rds of Iraqis think we never should have been there, and nearly 1/2 think we should leave now; both figures up significantly since the start of the surge. 57% feel that attacks on US forces are “acceptable”, also up since the start of the surge. If the surge was working, you’d expect those numbers to be better, not worse. And the numbers Petreaus is presenting are “fudged” to look far better than they are.
    This “liar”/”traitor” BS is a giant slight-of-hand intended to distract from the real issue. I have no interest in playing character assassin against Petreaus. I have every interest in the American people getting the real facts. And the facts are that things are really not going all that well. The needles have moved, but not by all that much. Not enough to make a real difference. And that was what the surge was supposed to do, right? Make a real difference?

  5. Brain Shavings

    Troop surge peaks, deaths decrease, leftists rage

    Since the troop surge to Iraq reached full strength on June 15th, look what’s happened to U.S. military deaths due to hostile action through the end of August. Click on the graph to see the full statistics: The site that tracks these deaths, Iraq Coali…

  6. Alo Konsen

    General Petraeus on the authorship of his testimony:

    At the outset I would like to note that this is my testimony. Although I have briefed my assessment and recommendations to my chain of command, I wrote this testimony myself. It has not been cleared by nor shared with anyone in the Pentagon, the White House or the Congress until it was just handed out.

  7. King

    Joseph you wrote…. “strength and conviction of lefty politicians.” Where?!? Name one?!?
    Brian, you say nothing about all the lies the liberal logheads and defeatist democrats are saying about our successes in Iraq – why not?
    You guys refuse to accept the real facts on this war and the enemy we are facing. What the F kind of Americans are you when you defend terrorists over our own country?
    How come we never see or hear nothing about the GOOD THINGS our troops are doing from any left leaning blogs, democrats, liberals or your pansy pushing groups?
    Why nothing about Iraqi’s civilians starting to standing up against terrorists?
    The liberals, democrats & MSM have caused more US troops to die than any terrorist.
    Is everything we hear from Washington true? No, don’t be an idiot! Everybody spins, it’s life.
    Are the schools, medical facilities, infrastructure rebuilding, etc we are building is that all bad? Are those all lies too?
    You “social program suck wads” should love this! I would tell all the Iraqi refugees, “Get your ass back home and fight for your country,” “If you dont, we will bomb the place into oblivion.” Then we could look at Iran and ask if they still want nukes and if there is anything else they have to say.
    The reason this social shit is being done is so we can help these goat farmers try and rebuild their country. Then bring our boys home.
    If you cry baby blue tards had your own country (boy that would be nice! We could name it Blue Tard Village. Kookcinich could be your leader)would you readily accept a country who pulled support from you before, which would be Desert Storm.
    Remember when we stopped chasing Iraqi soldiers on the “Highway of Death” in our pursuit of Saddam because everyone was afraid we would be labeled as the bad guys? Well, through that liberal, kiss ass, lets play a board game theory we are there again!
    And guess what? We are still the fucking Bad Guys! So take your numbers & percentages you got from the MSM and stick them sideways up your ass!
    By the time you guys realize the TRUTH the, muslims will have US women wearing burqua’s, & all you residents of Blue Tard Village will be the first they stone to death, behead, or just throw off a cliff!
    Better yet Brian — Maybe you could just jump!

  8. Brian

    Things aren’t going well?

    Are we any closer to a political solution? Isn’t that the whole point of why we are still there? Petraeus himself said back in March that there is no military solution to Iraq, and that the political solution requires Iraqis feeling safer. I already pointed out they don’t.
    Why is this so hard for you hawks to get?
    US troop deaths are down. That’s fantastic. But it’s not proof that the surge is “working”, if you define “working” to mean creating progress towards political reconciliation.

  9. Alo Konsen

    US troop deaths are down. That’s fantastic. But it’s not proof that the surge is “working”, if you define “working” to mean creating progress towards political reconciliation.

    But that is progress; it is working. Here’s how things will go if you libs can just put your country’s long-term security interests ahead of your party’s short-term political interests for once.

    1. Coalition and Iraqi Army/Police establish security
    2. Iraqis feel secure
    3. Iraqis craft lasting political solution
    4. We go home

    Each step depends on the preceding step. As we speak, the end of step one is coming closer … thanks to the surge.
    Why is this so hard for you doves to get?

  10. Joseph

    King just proved my point. His rage-filled rant about liberals destroying America is exactly the kind of crap that we hear every day from the right. And it’s about time the left got some balls and started raging back.
    I also feel like I need to mention something:
    You can abel me a dove if you like- but it’s no accurate. I’m not against all wars.
    The invasion of Afghanistan, for example, was a move I totally support. Why? Because there actually WERE terrorists there. We had a clear objective and a strong reason to be there.
    But Iraq?
    There were no terrorists in Iraq until we destablized the county and pissed off the rest of the middle east.
    The people in Iraq aren’t attacking and killing our troops because they hate western civilization and want to destoy it. They’re doing it because WE ARE IN THEIR FUCKING COUNTRY.
    THOSE, my friend, are the “real facts on this war and the enemy we are facing.”
    There was no good reason for us to invade Iraq. Not one.
    And THAT is why I think we should bring our troops home and stop spending BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars we don’t have on a war we never should have started and can never win.

  11. Eric Vessels

    LOL. Easy Ralph. Easy brother. What’s got you so worked up? Parroting CentComm not going too well for ya? When you gotta put out a $20 million RFP for “public relations products”, things might not be going too well afterall.
    Watch the crybaby, defeatists, and pansy comments my man. You and I both know it ain’t true. We differ, but we do so with no less conviction and love for this country than you do. Some of us even served it. In fact, more modern Dem. politicians have then Rep. Do some math on that one some time. Quite fascinating shit. Facts are what the facts are, and they seem to point to spoiled rich kids sending other people’s into war.
    Show me one instance of someone “defending terrorists over our own country”. Are you for real? Deep breaths brother. Long. Deep. Breaths.